Do you know what a forensic scientist is? A forensic scientist performs autopsies to gather scientific and medical information. In the process, he or she determines the cause of death and changes in organs or tissues through histological and cellular examinations. With CAH, let's get to know Seo Joong-seok, who graduated from Chung-Ang University (CAU) College of Medicine in 1983, dealt with the 'Sewol Ferry' incident and the “Park Chorong-Chorong-Bitnari murder case,” and is currently the director of the SJS Institute of Forensic Science & Medicine.

#Life as a CAU Student
1. Please introduce yourself to Chung-Ang University students and readers of this article.
Hello. I am Seo Joong-seok, a graduate of the College of Medicine at CAU. I unintentionally started studying forensic medicine, and eventually had the opportunity to work as the president of the National Forensic Service (NFS) for 4 years. I retired from the NFS in June 2016 and started running the SJS institute of forensic science & medicine. Also, I still do autopsies once or twice a week and give lectures at various universities and institutions.

2. Please explain in detail what “forensic medicine” and the characteristics of a “forensic scientist” are.
Forensic medicine is not only related to death but also has to do with revealing the cause of death through anatomy. Medicine has many fields and among them, forensic medicine is a discipline closely related to society. Specifically, it plays a role in understanding deaths related to social conflicts through an accurate autopsy and reconciling those conflicts. Forensic science does not only perform an autopsy of the corpse but also does individual identification among living people. Also, because a forensic scientist is a person who only tells the truth, I cannot give people only the answers they want. But I don’t worry about trying to look magnificent to others. I personally think that these are the characteristics of forensic scientists.

3. In an interview with Sungkyunkwan University Newspaper in 2020, you said that you became a forensic scientist from your interest in pathology. What interested you in pathology?
When I entered CAU, pathology was the central field in the College of Medicine. CAU was ahead of other universities in this field at the time, so many professors from Seoul National University gave lectures at CAU, and lots of excellent experts taught students pathology. They looked so cool during their lectures, so I dreamt of becoming a pathologist. Also, I thought that if I studied forensic medicine, I could achieve something. At first, I started forensic science with a little curiosity and a feeling that I didn't want to go to a university located in province without a sense of mission. However, studying forensic medicine was more interesting than pathology, and I felt like I was out to an open world from the confined, narrow space where I had lived until then.

#Life as a Forensic Scientist
4. In 2011, you were the real person behind Park Shin-yang’s character in the drama “Sign,” which hit Korea. Tell us your concerns before the drama aired, and what changed after the drama aired.
At first, I did not want forensic medicine to appear in a drama, so I was against it. However, director Jang persuaded me by saying that he wanted many people to be aware of forensic medicine. Park Shin-yang studied hard about what I have worked on as a forensic scientist. Thanks to his enthusiasm, I decided to help him out actively. Through this process, the drama Sign was made. After it aired, I heard that people who didn't know much about forensic medicine learned that forensics are important. As the forensic medicine boom occurred, the number of National Forensic researchers increased nationwide from about 10 to 30. However, there was also a disappointment in the plot, because of dramatic elements such as some inaccuracies in the process of manipulating the results. However, as “Sign” was exported to other countries, I was able to go abroad to give lectures, and received various benefits. I want to express my appreciation for “Sign”.

5. When an autopsy is done on a patient who has an infectious disease, you have the threat of infection. Are there any quarantine rules or special precautions to follow during an autopsy of an infectious disease patient?
In the past, the autopsy rooms were poorly equipped and the environment was very inadequate. For this reason, autopsy workers often contracted tuberculosis after performing autopsies. But now, unlike in the past, there is almost no problem with infectious diseases because the autopsy is carried out in a place where there are almost no germs. But in the past, it was very bad. I'm glad I'm surviving now.

6. You lectured on “Understanding Society through Forensic Medicine” at Sungkyunkwan University, and students presented various types of death in this class. Why did you open a student participatory lecture?
In “Understanding Society through Forensic Medicine”, students formed a team and delivered presentations of actual media events or how they felt about death. Most of the students already had a view of society that they’d gotten from the humanities and sociology. But they’d never seen this from the forensic perspective, that is a completely different point of view. So, rather than teaching forensic medicine precisely by myself, I wanted to teach how to interpret death through forensic medicine. Therefore, my lecture opens an opportunity for discussion so that students could have the right view to judge society. From my point of view, students had a good memory but they felt it difficult to express and discuss their thoughts. In my lectures, I wanted to improve their ability to present their thoughts. 

7. Do you have any occupational hazards that you have experienced in your daily life as a forensic scientist?
I don’t feel like I had any occupational hazards. If I have to pick one, it is that I am more unwavering about death than others. I think that I could die while sleeping, so I tend to keep everything tidy at the workplace and at home. Therefore, all the spaces I use are as clean as a hotel room.

8. In Korea, the number of autopsies performed is relatively low compared to the number of deaths. If it turns out that it was a murder case after cremation, forensic scientists are unable to perform an autopsy. How do you think the autopsy system should change to solve these problems?
Since the scene is very important, I think that forensic scientists must conduct at the scene. When experts are put into the scene, there are two positive effects. First, they can make a more accurate death diagnosis. Second, it directs accurately whether a corpse needs an autopsy or not. If the system in which forensic scientists are put into the scene is established, I expect that the number of autopsies will increase somewhat. I consulted with many people who have suffered for regretting not having had an autopsy performed due to difficult situations. Death is not the end, because it causes various social problems. Fortunately, now that the Korean National Police Agency has trained a lot of field investigators, there are fewer cases where people other than experts such as doctors are being put into the field, but I’m still anxious. I think that the system should be reformed quickly, and forensic scientists should participate in any scene involving a death.

9. You have been in charge of many famous cases. Are there any confidentiality provisions required by the NFS in those cases?
Yes. To protect human rights, we should not disclose anything about the dead to the media. That is why forensic scientists do not appear in places in the media such as TV programs or the news. To briefly explain the autopsy process, there is first an autopsy and a secondary autopsy. When a corpse first arrives to get an autopsy it first is scanned and is then taken to the autopsy room to examine the appearance. After that, according to the procedure, an incision is made to the chest, stomach, head, and lastly neck, and necessary samples such as blood or tissue are taken. Afterwards, the collected evidence is sent to all inspection departments, and the doctor in charge receives the results and writes an appraisal. All of this must remain confidential. Except for cases which throws the society into chaos, when investigation agencies or government agencies request forensic scientists to conceal the details. At that time, the doctors have the right to disclose the contents.

10. Among the differences between Crime Scene Investigation (CSI) and Korean forensic scientists, you mentioned that Korean forensic scientists not going to the scene in person is a problem. Is there any improvement in this regard? Or do you think more improvement is needed in the future?
After some improvements in this field, these advances were withdrawn due to the lack of personnel. Some of the people who studied forensics at the NFS started a clinic and they saw the corpse with their own eyes on the scene. It has become more accurate, but I still think that autopsy is something that Korea should do. I think that Korea should make continuous investments so that there is no difficulty in finding out the reasons when people die. The problem of investigative issues is being resolved, but the issues around autopsies remain. It's a pity that I can't intervene in the system because I'm retired.

11. You are still working hard to help the dead after conducting many autopsies. What motivates you to overcome many difficulties?
The reason I still do autopsies is not because I am a particularly great person, but because of the absolute lack of people in this field. Not only me, but my seniors also help with autopsies. The reason for establishing the SJS Institute of Forensic Science & Medicine was to export forensic science to foreign countries with Sungkyunkwan University. Now, me and my staff run this office to teach students and help people in difficult situations about death. If you need help, you are welcome to come to me at any time.

12. When you were appointed as the 12th president of the NFS in 2012, what was your ultimate goal as the director? 
I don't think I have any special administrative skills because I only studied forensics in the autopsy room all my life. As the director of the NFS, the most important thing for me was to perform an autopsy quickly and accurately in order to quickly catch the criminal. And it was also my goal to simplify all administrative burdens for employees. In addition, by explaining in detail to the Ministry of the Interior and Safety about the insufficient budget and personnel, which are still chronic problems, they supported us with lots of machines and increased personnel. Finally, my great achievement is to spread Korean technology to developing countries. When we delivered digital and genetic technology to Sri Lanka and Colombia where there was an explosion at a church, Korean technology helped to solve this case. There is also a wish for me that CAU would help with transferring forensic medicine to other countries.

13. All students who dream of becoming forensic scientists think of you as a role model. Is there a role model or a value that you pursue as a forensic scientist?
Due to the characteristics of forensic science, there were not many seniors before me, so I think that I pioneered the field of forensic medicine by myself. Nevertheless, Kang Shin-mong and Lee Eun-tae, also forensic scientists, gave great help to me. With Kang Shin-mong, I thought together about the importance of the field, which we considered important, and worked together to develop the system of forensic science. Lee Eun-tae taught me how to love society and life when I only knew about work and study. I think I was able to do forensic medicine properly thanks to them.

14. Have you ever thought that performing autopsies was difficult and not suitable for your aptitude? If there is a special event that made you think like that, I would appreciate it if you can tell us about it. 
There have been times when I thought that autopsies were really unpleasant. Also, since the number of people who performed autopsies was absolutely insufficient, I was often overworked. However, I always had a sense of mission when I stood in front of the operating table, and I treated dead bodies based on this mindset. I barely thought that autopsy is not suitable for me when in front of the operating table.

15. You mentioned the need for the NFS to explore the Sewol Ferry in various ways, and I wonder what you feel about the Sewol incident in the field of forensic science. 
The Sinking of MV Sewol was a massive disaster, and many people died as a result. In these mass disasters, identifying individuals is the most important part of the process. When I think about it, and also objectively, Korea has high level of personal identification technology. However, it is not easy to perform an autopsy on a body from the sea because the bodies become similar since they are covered in oil and also the skin and muscles disappear. The ROKS Cheonan Sinking  was similar to this. In the case of the Cheonan incident, it was carried out well according to the manuals and was completed without much difficulty; but the Sewol Ferry Incident went through difficult process. Forensic scientists deeply understand and mourn with the bereaved families. Therefore, I hope that the government will provide more opportunities for forensic scientists to do their best to find the bodies by actively accepting the opinions of experts.

16. According to the article 'Seo Joong-seok's Forensic Science Story', you explained the situation in detail by referring to the case of a retired senior participating in an autopsy. Do you think more advanced institutional improvements are being made recently?
It can be said that the working environment and economic aspects have improved, whereas the fundamental system and method of operating the forensic process has hardly improved. Currently, Korean society has more interest in investigators rather than the autopsy authority and the autopsy system, so this improvement seems difficult in a couple of years. Also, Korea is helping to build an autopsy room in Mongolia. Mongolia is economically poorer than Korea, but the system of forensic science is well constructed. When I think about this, I feel that Korea also has various shortcomings.

17. In 2007, you contributed to the introduction of an efficient autopsy system by signing a cluster agreement with the Catholic University of Korea and Korea University. Were there any difficulties in this agreement?
When a person died at the edge of Seoul, the body had to be moved to Gangseo-gu, but I thought that this process was inefficient. So I figured out the method of ‘how quickly and closely we can perform an autopsy’, and signed a first agreement with Korea University and Catholic University in Seoul, where there are people with forensic science degrees, and established an autopsy room at each. At that time, forensic medicine professors did not directly go to the autopsy room, so they only taught theory-oriented classes to students, but the agreement allowed professors to provide practical training to students. I also made a request to Seoul National University and CAU, and Seoul National University signed an agreement, but CAU did not do so for various reasons. If Chung-Ang University signed the agreement, I thought that I could perform an autopsy in the room and teach students about it even after retiring. Currently, there are three autopsy rooms at universities in Seoul, and I am grateful to my seniors who supported this.

18. How does COVID-19 affect the autopsy process or the investigation process? 
When COVID-19 first appeared in Korea, an autopsy was not done properly to determine whether the person who tested positive for COVID-19 died from the virus or another cause. Although several autopsies were performed, the number of autopsies on those who actually died due to the virus was low. Also, when someone died after the vaccination, the question about whether the death was due to COVID-19, or the vaccination, did not seem to be resolved well. Personally, I think that experts including forensic scholars should formally be included in the discussions. The upside of COVID-19, however, is that consumables like personal protective equipment are completely in place. Nowadays, forensic scientist can perform an autopsy with a lot of protective equipment and in well-equipped facilities. 

#Concluding the Interview
19. What are your life goals as a human being, not a forensic scientist?
My greatest wish is to die beautifully. Since the day I will die is closer than the day I was born, I want to have a beautiful death rather than thinking deeply about what I should do well. Also, I want my wife, children and my other colleagues to live happily without getting hurt by me anymore, because I was often busy and couldn't spend much time with them. I established SJS Institute of Forensic Science & Medicine to share such happiness. I also want to send my forensics books to developing countries to help them out. If there is another small wish, I also want to give lectures to CAU students, as I did at Sungkyunkwan University so that I can share my experiences with students.

20. Please give your advice and support to CAU students who are working hard towards their dreams. 
In the early 2000s, there was a time when an autopsy request for a murder case suddenly came in, and I tried my best to do it. After the autopsy, I explained the cause of death to the bereaved family and investigators, and the killer of this case was caught. Back in the mid 2000s one family member told me something I’ll never forget. After performing an autopsy alone after a murder case I was exhausted and came out covered in sweat and blood, but immediately went to the family to tell them what I’d found. One of the family members told me later that ‘even though I was covered in sweat and blood, they thought I remained cool and even had an air of beauty about me. From this, even though being a forensic scientist isn’t really a beautiful job, I try to keep my mind clear each time I work. Now that my era of simply earning money has passed, I want students to find what they really want through reading, travel and conversations with their seniors and live prosperous lives I want to tell CAU students to have a variety of experiences that textbooks don't tell them.

21. What kind of influence has CAU had on your life as forensic scientist?
While attending CAU, I sometimes asked myself, “Is it possible for me to study in medical school?” I remember having a hard time as a student and doing several part-time jobs. Even after graduation, when I worked as a teaching assistant and was in the training process, my life wasn’t prosperous. Therefore, it's a pity that I couldn't spend much time with my friends and I feel sorry for them. Actually, I don't think I was very proud of CAU when I was attending school. However, now when I think about it, CAU led me to the path of becoming a forensic science, and it became a huge part of my career. In the future, I have a small hope that I can have an opportunity to serve CAU.

Seo Joong-seok has done hard works of determining facts after death but did not lose his passion. Even after graduating from the College of Medicine, he pursued his dream of becoming a forensic scientist rather than a doctor. At the end of the interview, he said he is known to have solved many cases by himself, but behind the scenes there were many people who helped solve the cases together. Also, he cautioned that he does not want to be given all the credit alone. CAH supports him as he runs hard to this day for his dream.